Links to authors who message you via CC system?

[Celeste Stewart]

I frequently receive messages via the CC messaging system from newer writers asking for help with submissions, rejections, proofreading, etc. If I don't recognize the name, I'd love to be able to click the writer's name and go to his or her CC profile. As it is now, "NewWriterX" can message me, but I can't easily see how active (or non-active) the writer is or even if he or she has had articles approved. I do try the "author's search" feature but this doesn't seem to work with newer writers - perhaps no articles have been approved or no profile set up? My guess anyway. I don't mind writers contacting me and asking for help, but I'd love to be able to find out if the writer has had any articles accepted, has created a profile, etc...

Not to be overly selective but I'd rather help writers that have some sort of a presence on the site, is actively seeking help in the forums, etc., rather than some random person who just signed up and hopes that I'll proofread all of his articles for him. I understand that some writers lurk in the forums and may want to contact a more established CC writer at some point for help and guidance and that's fine - as long as there was a way to see if the person has a record on the site. If I could see that the writer has a background of some sort with the site, such as having at least one article approved, then I'd be more willing to help than if there's no real history or interaction on the forums. Even then, I'm thinking I need to be more selective in who I help with detailed critiques. It is irritating to spend an hour or more critiquing/giving advice only to never hear a "thank you for your time" or anything ever again. I'm not at the point where I won't help a new CC writer when asked (or maybe I am?), but I am seriously considering being more selective in who I help. Being able to find the writer's profile would be helpful.

Today I had a guy who claims he writes 50 articles per day and asked if I would be willing to work out a proofreading arrangement. That's a bit over the top and obviously none of us have the time for an arrangement like that, so saying "no thanks" wasn't a difficult decision. Even if it were 50 articles per month instead of day, I'm not interested in something like that, even if I was paid handsomely for it. For the less over-the-top inquiries, it would be nice to be able to click the messager's link and see his or her profile to get a better sense of who is asking for help and how much effort has been put forth to be successful with the site so far.

[Debbi]

People asking for your help should at least provide you with their pen name so you can look them up!

[Celeste Stewart]

The pen name is given. The messages say, "Message from author 'Blah Blah Blah," but the sender's name isn't linked in any way. I can search for "Blah Blah Blah," but results vary. It would be cool if "Message from Blah Blah Blah" were linked to the appropriate person's profile or the "From" field hyperlinked.

I suspect why I can't find these writers' profiles is because they have not yet had articles accepted. For example, if I go to the Author's tab and search for "Celeste," guess whose profile appears in the results? Same with your pen name and those of the active writers. But if I enter the author's name as it appears in my inbox, unless the writer is established with a sale or an article approved or some other benchmark, nada. I guess that's clue number 2, eh? I suppose if the name brings up nothing, I can assume the writer hasn't had an article accepted or created a profile. Not sure exactly what the criteria is these days to show up in search results. In the past it was 5 articles accepted to be listed, but that was with the old site.

Anyhow, maybe this is all academic. Maybe I should establish my own criteria before extending personal help when asked? That's tough because if someone asks for help politely, I want to help. It's not like I give free critiques to anyone who asks. Obviously, if the request is written in horrible English or I have a sense that the writer is obviously not CC material, I point the writer in other directions. Hmmn, need to think about this. I get enough of these messages that I may need to figure out a better way.

Anyone else in this same boat? Ideas?

[nichewriter]

Today I had a guy who claims he writes 50 articles per day and asked if I would be willing to work out a proofreading arrangement. That's a bit over the top and obviously none of us have the time for an arrangement like that, so saying "no thanks" wasn't a difficult decision.

I received the same email earlier today, Celeste. Before responding, I tried searching for him in the CC author database just so I'd have an idea of his writing style. When I didn't find him, I gave him my proofreading rates. He told me my rates were too high and no, he doesn't have any articles approved for CC; they were rejected for grammatical errors. I wrote back that my rates are standard proofreading rates in the US and they reflect my experience as a proofreader. I advised him perhaps CC is not the best place for him at this point and that he needs to brush up on his grammar. He may be able to write 50 articles a day but I seriously have doubts about the quality of those articles. In any case, I would be happy to help a fellow CC author but need to be selective also. After all, each hour I spend proofreading or editing someone else's work is an hour I lose writing for my own projects/clients that pay the bills.

~Sherry

[nichewriter]

Anyhow, maybe this is all academic. Maybe I should establish my own criteria before extending personal help when asked? That's tough because if someone asks for help politely, I want to help. It's not like I give free critiques to anyone who asks. Obviously, if the request is written in horrible English or I have a sense that the writer is obviously not CC material, I point the writer in other directions. Hmmn, need to think about this. I get enough of these messages that I may need to figure out a better way. Anyone else in this same boat? Ideas?

Celeste,

Off CC, I help out other writers whenever I can, but I have learned to draw the line as to how much to help them. For instance, just a couple of weeks ago, I met a writer from India who needed help with his articles. I offered to look at a few of his articles and give him some feedback. Overall, his writing was good, but he had some grammar issues (e.g., misuse/non-use of articles, conditional tenses, subject-verb agreement) and I gave him a brief review of his work. He wanted me to give him a detailed critique of his articles. Anyway, I put aside half an hour and focused on one of his articles and gave him a detailed critique, with a note advising him to apply my critique to his other articles and he'll be able to find the mistakes himself. He went away for a while, but I guess he's taken me as a mentor of sorts and a few days later, there he was again with several articles of his. Again, he wanted me to give him a detailed feedback. I politely told him that I simply do not have the time to do that because I have projects needing my attention (I had 5 deadlines to meet that day), and if he would just go back to my initial detailed critique, he should be fine. I also gave him links to grammar resources he needs to check out. Then early this week, he came to me again with the same request. This time, I gave him my editing rates, telling him nicely that I don't mind helping out other writers like himself from time to time, but I can only give help up to a point. I value my time, and do help out when I can, but at some point the writers I help need to be able to learn by themselves. After all, if they keep returning for me for help, they aren't going to learn.

~Sherry

[Celeste Stewart]

Ah, Sherry, thanks for that. Yeah, the grammar of the request was yet another reason I was not remotely interested in helping. I figured either the 50 articles a day was a typo or the guy was an article spinnner. Now, I'm thinking . . . SPAMMER Alert!

LOL

Maybe we need to ask CC to implement a "must have an article approved before you can contact other CC writers" policy, too. Actually, that would help a lot!

[Celeste Stewart]

Part 2,
Just saw the second part of your response. I don't mind helping people that I think can benefit from a detailed "here's how CC works and how you can improve and hopefully fit in" type of critique and I tend to ignore ,or politely suggest other venues to, those that don't appear to grasp basic English. In a way, I feel like we need a stock set of "Please seek different markets for your work" phrases like Ed has to use from time to time. The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see some restriction on who can contact us via the CC system.

As far as helping other writers goes, my focus isn't to educate writers of the world in how to write; rather it's how to teach decent writers how to be successful with CC. So, I'm thinking my new approach is "Prove to me that you have basic writing skills (in English) and can follow simple writer's guidelines and then we'll talk." Hmnn. . .

[nichewriter]

Ah, Sherry, thanks for that. Yeah, the grammar of the request was yet another reason I was not remotely interested in helping. I figured either the 50 articles a day was a typo or the guy was an article spinnner. Now, I'm thinking . . . SPAMMER Alert!

Yeah, I wonder who else he's contacted. I'm guessing a few more... I've come across his type before in the other forums, especially in the IM forums, where a lot of "writers" promote their "writing" services or article packs. I've actually had to fix hundreds of articles for clients who paid $1 an article from those 50-articles-a-day offshore writers. Those articles are every editor's worst nightmare. I had to be upfront with the clients (and for my own sanity) - told them fixing those articles will cost them more than if I were to write new ones from scratch. They always chose the latter, and I may have lost a few dollars initially, but they became regular customers.

Maybe we need to ask CC to implement a "must have an article approved before you can contact other CC writers" policy, too. Actually, that would help a lot!

Count me in on this suggestion! This is definitely great - if a writer who is asking for our help has articles already approved on CC, we know he's already got a good grasp of grammar and the CC rules, which will make proofreading/editing him much easier and quicker too.

[Celeste Stewart]

For me, it's easier to rewrite than to proof/edit/explain what was wrong with the original

[nichewriter]

Yeah, that's why I think your idea of linking to the CC author's name in messages is a good idea. If we know that we're helping fellow CC writers who have basic writing skills and shown they can follow CC's guidelines (by actually getting articles accepted), then it can only be a win-win situation for all. The more writers CC has who can write and sell, the better for all of us.

Oh yeah, I also wrote that guy that if his articles are getting rejected for grammatical mistakes, perhaps CC is not the right venue for him at this time, and he should try to improve on his grammar before continuing

[nichewriter]

For me, it's easier to rewrite than to proof/edit/explain what was wrong with the original

True! Try rewriting 400 words of fluff... those $1 articles say the same thing over and over you can actually rewrite them to just one paragraph

[Celeste Stewart]

Ha! I replied with a single sentence, "I'm sorry but my workload is such that I simply don't have time for such a project." Now that I look at that sentence, I so want to rewrite it to eliminate the double use of the word "such" in favor of something like, ". . . for a project of this scope." Sheesh, why do I care?!!!! Makes me giggle

[Lysis]

50 articles a DAY????? Whaaaa? I've been able to churn out mindless stuff for DS and I got out 32 one day when I really needed some money. I worked for 15 hours straight. That guy must be a farmer on elance or GAF.

I made the mistake of saying I'd proofread someone's work for their website. It wasn't through CC. It was back when I first started freelancing. He said he had about 10 pages that another writer created, and he just needed me to proof it and add a little extra words here and there. So, I took the job. Well, this guy must have hired a $1/article dude in India, because this guys grammar was horrible, and a lot of his sentence structure was obviously from India or Pakistan. I did the first 2 pages and told the guy that the grammar was so bad, I actually had to cut out whole paragraphs. Then, got to the last pages and the "writer" just copy/pasted and plagiarized others' work. I finally told the guy that I can't proof plagiarized material, took my money for proofing what I could, and never did a proofing job again.

I think what some of these people do is hire a $1/article writer in India and then tell someone whose first language is English that the work is already done and all that needs to happen is proofing. So, they expect you to proof it for cheap, and they walk away with a polished article for $5, but you wind up needing to rewrite the article altogether.

[eek]

Would CC allow you to set up a forum post to newbies outlining how to approach authors for help? Seasoned authors could add their names to the list of those willing to proofread, along with a list of suggestions for what to do before contacting anyone (set up a profile, read the forums and guidelines, submit at least one article, etc.). It could also be specified that any help offered would be on a short term basis, not ongoing, and only extended to those who appear to be making efforts and have potential for writing for CC. Such a post might be a handy link to paste into a return message to anyone who contacts you for help in the future, Celeste & Sherry, saving you time just typing out responses. It might backfire and draw more newbie authors than you'd like, but it's a thought.
Emma

[Debbi]

Lysis wrote: I've been able to churn out mindless stuff for DS and I got out 32 one day when I really needed some money.

32! Whaaaat? How in the world did you find 32 titles that made enough sense to write about them? DS has such a wealth of inane titles it seems impossible to find 32 in one fell swwop.

Even if I wrote 15 hours straight I wouldn't be able to write even a third of that probably. Tortoise, remember? Heh:)

As for authors asking for help:

I am one of those newbies who asked Celeste for help when I first arrived. I had submitted and had accepted five articles or so and just wanted to know if I was on the right track with price, voice, topic, etc. I guess I was more interested in knowing whether I was a good fit for CC and Celeste reassured me that I was doing fine. Thanks again for that, Celeste. I think I contacted you because of your posts in the forums and your thousands of articles count on your profile page. Success attracts supplicants :>

For those of you who have helped writers with grammar, etc. How many of those writers have gone on to be successful CC writers? If you haven't had grammar and punctuation pounded into your brain from an early age, how easy is it to learn later?

One more question: What is a reasonable proofing rate to charge (in general)?